Traction control light still on?

[sinbrad]

Tried that and got some strange looks from other road users! The bit that I'm wondering about is...

<!--fonto:Arial--><span style="font-family:Arial"><!--/fonto-->You can help out by providing the correct driving condition for TC 'learning'.<!--fontc--></span><!--/fontc-->

This seems to state that although giving it a helping hand the TC needs time to sort itself out?

[sinbrad]

Have now tried everything that has been suggested and have also managed to take the TC body off and give it a good old refurbishment. When I first start the car all the checks are completed and all lights go out that should, including the TC. However, when I move off the TC light comes on within a couple of feet of movement? So at a loss now. Apart from getting hole of a replacement TC body is there anything else I could have a look at? I've already changed one senser which was causing the ABS problem but other than that I'm open to suggestions?

cheers

[sinbrad]

Checked everything, had the car up on a ramp and all the rings were checked and all in good shape. The fault first came up when I had a problem with the ABS light coming on at the same time. After all the advice it looked as though it was a faulty sensor, which I changed and although the ABS problem was sorted the TC light still kept coming on? If I were to sit in the car and start it up, push the TC button to toggle between on/off it does everything it should. Light only comes on when I move a few feet? Even when I put my 17" kans on there was no problem. I now have 17" wolfrace and it wasn't until I had both the ABS and TC lights on at the same did I suffer any problems. Even changed the TC ecu and that still made no difference?

[sinbrad]

Never thought of that. Will have a look and see, you never know?

[sinbrad]

Just had a look and no joy, all the same 215/40/r17 on 17" wolfrace? At a loss now

[sinbrad]

Just thought of something else? The previous tyres on the car, I think, were front 205's and rear 215's. Thought making them all the same would be easier for swapping around. Is it possible that by replacing the front smaller tyres with larger ones has caused the problem? Also are the abs sensors front and back both providing the information to the TC? As I no longer have an ABS fault light on don't think it will be that. I'm running out of ideas?

[RobbieV]

I think the TC checks the front wheels only seeing as its front wheel drive.

[sinbrad]

Will leave the battery off over night and see what happens. Will also carry out the TC learning test again. I know the tyre pressure suggested is for the standard fit wheels/tyres, what would the recommended pressure be for the new wheels/tyres 215/40/r17?

[sinbrad]

Well left the battery disconnected overnight, tried the TC run in test as suggested but still no joy. Will now jack the car up and see if there is a specific wheel that is causing the problem? As one sensor has already been replaced it can really only be the other wheel if anything?

[Cozy]

<!--QuoteBegin-sinbrad+--><div class='quotetop'>(sinbrad)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Will leave the battery off over night and see what happens. Will also carry out the TC learning test again. I know the tyre pressure suggested is for the standard fit wheels/tyres, what would the recommended pressure be for the new wheels/tyres 215/40/r17?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

i put 32 in the fronts and 30 in the rears

[Cozy]

my TC seems to have re-activated itself for some reason, its now working all the time wheres before it used to come straight on as soon as the car moved, but all seems fine now,

which is good

[sinbrad]

That's good news. Only wish my TC had a change of heart and sorted itself out. Have dropped the pressures down to same as you and have carried out another TC self learning test, light still on. Don't know how long it takes to re-learn as according to V6 website it could take a while?

[sinbrad]

Well completed all the testing ie TC learning etc. Have even just returned from a round trip totalling just over 900 miles and still TC light remains illuminated. Just before I left I did jack the car up and do the rotating test with each of the front wheels and both times they triggered the TC light. Does this mean that the TC motor is shot or are there still other possibilities that I could check? Don't want to go down the road of replacing the motor with a new unit if the problem is something else. As I've learnt on this site it's not always a good thing to go changing things willy nilly as 9/10 times it wasn't that particular item that was causing the problem in the first place. I've almost exhausted all of my options?

Oh, sprung a small petrol leak on my return trip but kind AA man fixed it [img]/smile.gif[/img]

Think it's time for the fuel pipes to be replaced, that's another thread!

[Mark1]

Have you read all this....





The Traction Control system fitted to V6 Calibra's is an 'early' type TC system. It uses three main components :
The front ABS wheel speed sensors are used to determine individual wheel speeds.
The Traction Control ECU controls triggering and testing of the TC motor/solenoid unit (TC butterfly valve).
It communicates with the main Motronic ECU to determine engine operating conditions.
It also has links to the main Motronic ECU in order to send fuel injection cut-off signal when TC is triggered.
The Traction Control Motor is a valve/solenoid assembly placed inline with the Throttle Body. Its' operation is controlled by the TC ECU. When activated the throttle butterfly valve position is overridden and the air inlet tract is closed - cutting engine output.




Manufactured for Opel by Hella. Uses two microprocessor chips. Same system used in Astra, Cavalier and Calibra.

When the TC ECU detects differential front wheel speeds and decides they exceed its' predetermined limit, the TC Motor is activated and engine power is cut by effectively closing the throttle valve. The TC ECU also sends a signal to the main Motronic ECU instructing it to cut the injector pulse cycle. When the TC ECU is activating, the TC dash light will flash orange.

The TC system can be disabled using the override button.
The TC button (bottom of the centre console - in front of gear stick) toggles the TC system on and off. The TC status light (on the instrument panel) permanently illuminates orange when the TC system is switched OFF (or disabled due to fault detected in TC system).

When you turn on the ignition the TC system is tested. During this brief period the TC status light will illuminate orange for a second and then go out - indicating all is normal.

Unfortunately the V6 Calibra TC system is prone to problems. Traction Control will always break.... eventually. It is the way the Traction Control motor/solenoid unit is designed. It uses an electromagnetic valve which uses standard carbon brushes. These wear with time, or more specifically the number of TC valve motor operations. Even if you don't think your TC is engaged very often (so it can't wear much, right ?) you have to take into account that valve operation is fully tested every time you turn the ignition and moves inline with the throttle valve. There are other moving mechanical parts which are also prone to wear. That's why V6 TC units usually fail after three to five years operation. Sourcing brand new TC motor solenoids is difficult and expensive. Normal recommended price is around £500 !! and it is rare to find an agent/dealer who moves much from this price. Good luck finding a new one; and very good luck if you're buying second hand with what's out there these days.
There are other parts to the whole TC system. The front ABS wheel speed sensors, the Traction Control ECU and the wiring in-between. Faults with the wheel speed sensors should also cause an ABS fault light but there have been reports where different size front tyres (caused for example by under inflation) have resulted in a TC fault - suggesting that the TC is less tolerant of differential wheel speed difference problems than the ABS system.

Under certain conditions where there is a difference between the rolling diameters of the front wheels the TC may activate or may generate a TC fault light. This can happen where you have one new and one worn tyre, a puncture - travelling on the space-saver wheel or even just after fitting 4 new tyres. To minimise this effect the TC ECU features a 'learn' function to compensate under these conditions. The learning adjustment is only carried out under specific circumstances and may take some time to correctly set the adjustment factor. You can help out by providing the correct driving condition for TC 'learning' :

Ensure all tyres are set to correct pressures (V6 = 34 psi front / 31.5 psi rear)
Accelerate to between 62 and 74 mph
Allow speed to bleed off and DO NOT touch the accelerator or brake
Continue to allow speed to bleed off until the speed drops below 43 mph
Repeat up to 5 times for application of full TC tyre adjustment factor

What are the signs of a failing TC motor/solenoid unit ?
The TC light comes on 'by itself' while driving along. Stays on regardless of TC button presses. Is only reset when I turn the engine off, then on again.
When the TC fault light is illuminated for more than 20 secs a fault is logged and stored. If you have an early model V6 it may be possible for you to read out the TC ECU fault codes (see below), using the TC warning light, by shorting out the correct pins using the 'paperclip test'. This doesn't work on mid & late model V6's; the only way of properly interrogating the TC ECU is 'through' the main Motronic ECU using a Tech1 or similar (coms via ALDL asynchronous bus to Motronic).
You can get a code 79 (full load inhibit error) when performing a conventional ECU paperclip test (on the main Motronic ECU) . This is caused by a faulty TC ECU.

Can the TC Motor/Solenoid be repaired ?
Well, technically YES or rather it's life can be prolonged.
Cleaning the TC motor/solenoid connector plug sometimes appears to help.
Also stripping the TC motor out and giving it a good clean can also provide a short term extension in life.
When attempting to fix a TC fault light observe the following:

check vacuum and water connections for leaks (inlet manifold + throttle body)
ensure perfect seating of battery connections
never remove or connect the TC motor/solenoid multi-plug with the ignition switched on
TC valve alignment with indentations on housing should never be altered
If the unit has failed due to worn bushes/connections then the bushes can be replaced and the bad connections fixed. The problem is that you need a complete TC strip down and it's a very fiddly unit to reassemble correctly. In fact so much so that not many successfully recondition these units.
In the example below the TC unit was successfully repaired by replacing the bushes with new items from here : <a href="http://www.anglocarbon.com/" target="_blank">http://www.anglocarbon.com/</a>




TC stripdown 1
TC stripdown 2

TC stripdown 3
TC stripdown 4
TC stripdown 5



Do I even need Traction Control ?
Only you can answer that. Do you fully understand what it does?, do you know how much a new unit costs (£450 + VAT .. gulp!) ?
It is a driver safety aid. It is used to allow the driver to push the vehicle to it's limits under challenging conditions and have the TC ECU automatically back things off (cuts throttle with sub-second timing) if you start to loose it (significant difference detected in front wheel speeds).
Significantly, in the case of the calibra V6 implementation, the TC valve saps high end bhp from the system by causing a minor restriction in the inlet tract. Replacement of the unit with a spacer can free up a few bhp (at best) by removing the butterfly valve restriction.
When a widened TC spacer is used in conjunction with a matched widened throttle body, noticeable power gains can be made; most significantly in throttle response. There is no commercially manufactured Traction Control spacer that I am aware of. The easiest way is to make one out of a broken old TC motor or have on made at a small engineering firm. Disengaging the traction control using the override button will not reduce the inlet restriction; you need to fit a spacer in place of the TC valve to gain any benefit.

If yours is bust then you need to decide if you just live without it (not recommended - Fix it !) pull the bulb and maybe fit a spacer, try to repair it or have it repaired or even replace it with an expensive rare new unit which should be trouble free for another five years or so.
Don't let your experience with theV6 TC put you off traction control systems in general. The calibra system is effective when it works but more modern traction control systems use injection cycle interruption methods and being entirely electronic are not susceptible to mechanical wear related problems like this.


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V6 Traction Control ECU & System Diagnostics :




Paperclip test:
Short pins A and J on the ALDL diagnostic plug (upper corner of engine bay, near alarm horn)


## NOTE 1: This will only work on very early model V6 calibra's (93-94).
On later models there is no pin connector in the diagnostic plug at the "J" position.
TC fault communications can only take place across the ALDL asynchronous link through the main ECU.
In these cases TC fault codes can only be read using a Tech1, Tech2 or similar.

## NOTE 2: In the event of simultaneous ABS and Traction Control errors rectify the ABS fault codes first and this may clear the TC fault too.


Traction control fault codes
Apply paperclip across pins, start engine and read fault code out as number of flashes from the orange TC Status light on the dash. There is a short pause in flashes between numbers. The number '12' is used as a separator code. If a fault code is stored it will be repeated three times before the separator code is shown (12) and then the next fault code is flashed out. The whole sequence cycles until you turn off the ignition.

10 TC ECU has not been coded for correct vehicle application (same ECU used for Astra, Cavalier and Calibra)
14 Coolant temperature sensor - voltage low (pass through signal from Motronic)
15 Coolant temperature sensor - voltage high (pass through signal from Motronic)
21 not used for V6 Calibra
22 not used for V6 Calibra
23 Throttle Position Sensor - load signal out of range (pass through signal from Motronic)
26 TC valve position sensor - voltage high
27 TC valve position sensor - voltage low
31 No Engine RPM Signal (pass through signal from Motronic)
39 LH Front Speed Sensor (pass through signal from ABS ECU)
42 RH Front Speed Sensor (pass through signal from ABS ECU)
44 LH Rear Speed Sensor (pass through signal from ABS ECU)
46 RH Rear Speed Sensor (pass through signal from ABS ECU)
55 Internal TC ECU fault
57 ABS status signal - low voltage (pass through signal from ABS ECU)
58 ABS status signal - open circuit (pass through signal from ABS CEU)
61 Throttle Position Sensor load signal - voltage low (pass through signal from Motronic)
62 Throttle Position Sensor load signal - voltage high (pass through signal from Motronic)
63 TC motor/solenoid assembly - open circuit
64 TC motor/solenoid assembly - short circuit
82 TC override dash switch - voltage low



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Other Traction Control Facts

A common problem is the traction control motor plug becoming damp and/or the connector pins showing signs of green copper corrosion. A good clean and reseating the connector can fix this.



The TC system uses a pass through signal from the main Motronic ECU to determine the coolant temperature. This is used to help the TC ECU evaluate conditions. It only responds to five broad temperature band categories (see left) in respect to traction control response conditions.




If you are able to read them then fault codes: 39, 42, 44, 46, 57, 58 are faults with the ABS system not the traction control system and therefore the ABS light should be on. Fix the ABS fault and the traction control fault code should go away. Feedback from the ABS telltale input is requested by the TC ECU after completion of its' four second initialisation sequence (on ignition switch on).
Faults with the wheel speed sensors can and do occur. Electrical cable related faults are possible (between wheel speed sensor and connector) as are problems with the toothed target wheel the sensor keys off.

Intermittent cable related faults with either of the two front wheel speed sensors can cause the TC system to activate. The TC system can be deactivated with the override button until the ABS wheel speed sensor has been replaced.

Faulty front wheel speed sensors can cause erratic or failed Speedo reading on electronic Speedo equipped V6's (post '95).

Wheel speed sensors can be difficult to replace due to rusted sensor mounting brackets. Fortunately a new bracket and bolt only adds a few quid to the cost of a new ABS sensor.

It is rare to get a TC ECU failure (but not impossible). This appears to be the most reliable TC system component

[sinbrad]

Cheers for that mark, I have indeed read that and on more than one occasion. Have done almost everything that the site suggests but I'm still no further forward. You see the problem is that I never had a problem with the car until I started having probs with the ABS. Reading through everything it looked as though the TC problem was because of the faulty ABS sensor? Replaced that with a brand new one and although the ABS light went out and suffered no more probs with that, the TC light has remained on til this day. As stated it goes out when the diagnostics are done but as soon as the car moves a few feet forward it comes on? So as I said, having done almost everything, as well as change TC ecu's, I'm at a loss?


What would be ideal is if I could get hold of an undamaged/working second hand motor/solenoid body and switch it for mine just to test and see if it sorts the problem? Any volunteers for a donor part?